_-=BH=-_ Servers

[Korang]

I would like to address this to memebers of your clan that visited our game servrs then felt the need to advertise on them. It is an unspoken rule among clans not to do such a rude and crass act. If any memebers are caught doing this again, your clan wil placed on the BAN ON SIGHT list and banned from all ofour servers. =VSF=Sharkbait was the one I have a screenshot of advertising on our servers. If you would liek to see it I will gladly send it to you.

[Vygramul]

I'm a little surprised. I'm sure it must be a misunderstanding. For what it's worth, we're not a clan, just a gaming community. We don't compete (at least, not as VSF. Some members belong to other clans for competition.) You say Sharkbait is the one for whom you have a screenshot. Who else was there? Oh, and, what game?

[NVmySTYLE]

you say advertising isn't allowed on your server and you come to our forums and advertise your server in the thread title name. you rude and crass so and so =)


welcome aboard, we too have a no advertising rule and if you catch one of our members violating YOUR rules ban them but it isn't neccessary to ban all of vsf. we wouldn't ban your entire clan because of 1 knucklehead of yours did something that violated our rules.

[RuperT]

What was advertised? The VSF CoD server? The BF server? The web site? Viagra?
If it was for the game server, I can sympathize; nobody appreciates visitors trying to lure away your players. Otherwise, I think you're being a bit reactionary. True, VSF is always trying to grow as a community, but that's all we are really. We're not a clan; in fact, many of us are members of other defacto clans, active and otherwise. We're just folks who like thoughtful play and, sometimes, discussion. Our membership guidelines are hardly stringent; you could be a VSFer too, basically just by declaring yourself one! We don't really 'accept' people, or 'cut' them either for that matter (although we will condemn deserving actions, which rarely culminates in a member flying the coop).
The flip side of this is, while we do have admins of various stripes, there's no ruling council to establish some sort of policies or codes of conduct when we're in the wild, and there's no real precedent (or method) for members being 'punished'. If you in fact return to this message board (which I actually kind of doubt), you'll probably see many different opinions on the matter. I will say that banning us as a whole will not be any more effective than just banning the offender, but if you have enough quality players that you feel you can discard a group willy-nilly, then have at it.
In short, have a word with the offender; VSF members generally follow the rules, on our servers and others. Trying to deal with this a political matter between two clans will not bring satisfaction to any party.

[Wrigs]

Registered for your BH forums tonight after reading your post. Like NV stated (if you read any of the posts), if a member of our community did something wrong, they probably deserve a kick in the pants. To ban our whole community seems a little much. It's like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. After looking around your forums, i didn't notice anything posted about the alleged abuse..that was curious to me. Not here to cause any problems, just found it odd that nothing was posted on your forums, but you came here to let us know. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if Shark did it i'm surprised it happened. I've been with VSF/CCM for quite a few years now and this is the first time i've ever heard soemthing like this happening.

BTW:Welcome aboard

[Korang]

Sharkbait was advertising your website, thus how I found it. It was not posted on our website since 3/4 of the officers of BH where in the servers at the time. Unfortunatly we do not distinguish betweeen a community or clan. When we someone with tags in our server, it appears as somone represting a group and/or clan. As for banning all of VSF, we have very strict policies on advertising, as it appears in your own rules, when I looked under COD. The second person online that I saw and was pointed out to me at the time was Bounty_Hunter.

[Wrigs]

Sharkbait was advertising your website, thus how I found it. It was not posted on our website since 3/4 of the officers of BH where in the servers at the time. Unfortunatly we do not distinguish betweeen a community or clan. When we someone with tags in our server, it appears as somone represting a group and/or clan. As for banning all of VSF, we have very strict policies on advertising, as it appears in your own rules, when I looked under COD. The second person online that I saw and was pointed out to me at the time was Bounty_Hunter.

Not questioning whether or not you distinguish between clan or community..we don't either, but what we do is warn the person first about it and see what happens, if it continues we may warn again or kick, but your servers rules seem to be to want to ban the offender and any member of the "group" involved..which in my eyes seems a little harsh. A first time kick hopefully straightens the offender and other members up to NOT do whatever again..sometimes not. We're not questioning your rules, you've set them the way you want AND WE are supposed to follow them i agree. And i quote BH policy:

4. No recruiting, spamming or advertising on our servers. This is an unwritten rule amongst many clans. You may get one warning before being kicked. Multiple offensives will get you and your clan, group or organization banned.

What i have to ask .... WAS Shark warned about this and did he acknowledge this? Was he kicked? What was the action taken that precipitated you coming here...did he come back and do it again? What was Bounty doing that you've now mentioned him as well? Did he advertise too? Can you fill in the gaps for us. I noticed you're about my age (checked your profile), but i never go into a budget meeting without more facts/answers. I thank you for coming here and bringing this to our attention. Also, have you come here and PM'd Shark about the incident..most disputes like this we try to handle between the parties behind closed doors. Lastly i'm just curious about 2 more things... Are you a server admin and if not, does the admin know you are here?

[Iggy]

If you would liek to see it I will gladly send it to you.

I'd like to see it. Have you posted it somewhere on your forum?

[Korang]

I am currently looking for the screenshot. No, it is not posted in the website. I came here because as soon as they advertised, they bailed as fast as they could, thus making most officers agree they knew what they were doing was wrong. I also, came here, thinking I would be addressing and issue with the administration/officers of a clan. Our rules are clearly plastered across the screen when you join the game. As for being a server admin, yes. I am an officer of BH and also hold the title of MP(Military Police). It is my primary function to tweak punkbusted to catch the cheaters and police the servers. and as any admin knows, policing the servers is just a fancy way of saying, I get to squint at my screen while searching thru log files. I do not mean to start any arguments and problems, I just thought someone in charge might want to be aware that people representing your community are doing these things. Hopefully, it will not happen again.

[MASH]

I am currently looking for the screenshot. No, it is not posted in the website. I came here because as soon as they advertised, they bailed as fast as they could, thus making most officers agree they knew what they were doing was wrong. I also, came here, thinking I would be addressing and issue with the administration/officers of a clan. Our rules are clearly plastered across the screen when you join the game. As for being a server admin, yes. I am an officer of BH and also hold the title of MP(Military Police). It is my primary function to tweak punkbusted to catch the cheaters and police the servers. and as any admin knows, policing the servers is just a fancy way of saying, I get to squint at my screen while searching thru log files. I do not mean to start any arguments and problems, I just thought someone in charge might want to be aware that people representing your community are doing these things. Hopefully, it will not happen again.
I don't think anyone is arguing that advertising is wrong and against the rules of both of our communities. It just seems very out of character for both of those guys to do something like that, so people are just a wee bit skeptical. Over on the Battlefield side, we kick with little or no warning for the same offense, but certainly would not ban an entire clan for one or two bad apples. Just my thoughts.

[Iggy]

Fair enough. Because we are not an organized group per se we cannot enforce any rules on VSF members when they are not here, on one of our sponsored server or on someone else's server. These people are individuals they should be treated as such. If one of them knowingly breaks any rules you enforce feel free to kick/ban them. I think it is unfair to do a global ban on an entire group of users because of one person's actions however.

As far as starting an argument, I don't see that being the case. You have been respectful and courteous. I asked for proof not because I think you are dishonest but because seeing is believing. If you do happen to find that screenshot let us know.

[Angry Kid]

Clams make me giggle.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Dawg]

Ok.. lets sum this up.

Sharkbait mentioned this website on Korang's clan server. That was wrong. Korang came to here to post a warning that repeated offenses will cause a ban of our community. That is entirely within his provence as an officer in his clan and an admin on their game server. Frankly, he didn't have to do that - we could have been blindsided at some later point. Since we are not a clan, we lack the heirarchy that gives anyone other than Sharkbait the power to make a true apology - but an apology seems in order.

Now keep in mind that this is only my impression, having not spoken with Shark about the incident and only skimming through this thread. Sharkbait is 'good people' and I'm sure he meant no harm. He may have been thinking 'letter of the law', in that, since he did not mention our game server(s) but only the website, he techically didn't violate the rule (which bans advertising other servers). In my mind, that is splitting hairs and not in keeping in the spirit of respecting other servers' rules. Its not enough to follow the letter of the rule when you are wearing a community tag - you are representing all of us. We don't want others advertising on our servers, so dont' advertise on theirs.

As someone who lacks the authority to apologize.. I'll do it anyway... sorry, it shouldn't have happened... Let's put it behind us. GGs

Dawg

[Vygramul]

Yeah, let's not get ahead of ourselves. They haven't banned everyone with VSF tags, so we seem to be in agreement about the progression of punishments. It's in one's nature to be skeptical about the behaviour of one's friends, so the screenshot will be illuminating. I'll just remind people that it's only good manners to abide by the rules of the server on which we are guests.

[Chalybos]

Too true. Pee in somebody's pool, you won't be invited back next time there's a barbecue. :D

[Sharkbait]

Korang,

First off, These folks here are right. What happened last night was wrong. My apologies for my actions. On the other hand, Does your clan spawn camp as a regular practice? If so you won't have to worry about me being at your servers again. And you say you had admin there, the way they were playing explains why BH people were the only ones there. I also only advertized our website and forums, not our server. Either way, I was wrong and I apologize. I was a little frustrated at the spawn camping and one thing led to another.

Also, If you wish to ban someone. Make it me, everyone else there last night had nothing to do with my actions.

[Little Joe]

First off, the only ones involved were Shark, Bounty, and myself. We were at Carentan, and a bunch of your guys started spawncamping the Allied spawn. I was Axis at the time, but I heard Shark and Bounty saying they couldn't leave their spawn. If that's the way your clan plays, then there's no need to ban us, we won't be back, at least not to the rsd server. We never have had problems like that at your ctf server. Check your server logs, and you will see all the multiple grenade and satchel kills your guys were having at the allied spawn. And yes, they did complain, but no one seemed to care.

You're right, Shark should not have advertised our forums, but he's a big boy and can answer for his own actions. We did not leave like a bunch of kids running away after throwing rocks at a house. We were already on the way out.

I am saddened to hear you say that the spawncampers were the officers of your clan. That is not a very good example to set, in my opinion. Please post the screen shot; it will prove both our points.

[Wrigs]

Well this post got eerily quiet

[Korang]

I will address the spawn camping. Yes, it happened. And in actuality(sp) we do not normally play that way. We were all on teamspeak, joking around about it and lauging at how it is a flaw in the respawn S&D gametype for that to occur. Just seconds after you left, someone spoke up about knocking it off and all the BH members moved on to play the game normally. I will apologize for causing your gameplay to be soured by this experience. We were all discussing this flaw and joking and cussing about it, then stopped it after a few minutes and seeing how "worng" it was. We get just as frustrated at that type of gamplay, but it is hard to police because in some gametypes it just happens.

[Angry Kid]

mmmm . . . worng clams.

http://mrbigjas.freeshell.org/pics/homer_drool.gif

[Sharkbait]

Just so you know Korang, You won't see that type of playing on our server. We police it very easily. If you screw up like that you get a warning. If it continues, you get kicked. That is not the only time it has happened on your server with our group there. As I recall it has happened at least one other time. And for the life of me, I don't know why I went back. No offense, but I hate it when clans play like that. It makes for a bad experience and if a new comer to your server seen that, they would leave to play say After-hourz or someone like us. To be honest, that's how myself and a few others at VSF ended up here. And the clan was the DAWG clan if I remember correctly. Little Joe remembers.

[Wrigs]

I will address the spawn camping. Yes, it happened. And in actuality(sp) we do not normally play that way. We were all on teamspeak, joking around about it and lauging at how it is a flaw in the respawn S&D gametype for that to occur. Just seconds after you left, someone spoke up about knocking it off and all the BH members moved on to play the game normally. I will apologize for causing your gameplay to be soured by this experience. We were all discussing this flaw and joking and cussing about it, then stopped it after a few minutes and seeing how "worng" it was. We get just as frustrated at that type of gamplay, but it is hard to police because in some gametypes it just happens.

Spawn camping is easy to police..IF YOU WANT TO POLICE IT. We do it on our servers and i know a lot of other servers do it too..it's a tactic clans use in matches, but when most ppl don't play in matches, it makes for an unenjoyable experience. When it happens here, we move quick because we don't believe in the tactic. As far as saying it happens in some gametypes...it can happen in any of them. To joke about it AND still do it is the...DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO ideal. You come here saying the effect of this action was Shark advertising, but the cause of it was something you state you think is a flaw, but still did it anyways. I've left many servers because of spawn camping or ppl allowed to use glitches in the maps.

[Chairman_Kaga]

mmmm . . . worng clams.

http://mrbigjas.freeshell.org/pics/homer_drool.gif


Fried clams are good.

[MASH]

I think you guys are missing the point here... Korang came on to say that Shark advertised, and that he didn't appreciate the rules violation. Since Shark has admitted as much, and apologized, that is it... done.

But starting in on Korang because his guys were spawn camping seems silly. So what if they were spawn camping? Isn't it their server? Does that justify breaking their server rules?

Cmon guys...

[Chalybos]

I think you guys are missing the point here... Korang came on to say that Shark advertised, and that he didn't appreciate the rules violation. Since Shark has admitted as much, and apologized, that is it... done.

But starting in on Korang because his guys were spawn camping seems silly. So what if they were spawn camping? Isn't it their server? Does that justify breaking their server rules?

Cmon guys...
MASH is right. And you all know how it pains me to say that.

[Angry Kid]

http://home.cinci.rr.com/akpage/Clam.gif

[Chairman_Kaga]

I think you guys are missing the point here... Korang came on to say that Shark advertised, and that he didn't appreciate the rules violation. Since Shark has admitted as much, and apologized, that is it... done.

But starting in on Korang because his guys were spawn camping seems silly. So what if they were spawn camping? Isn't it their server? Does that justify breaking their server rules?

Cmon guys...
MASH is right. And you all know how it pains me to say that.

Gabby Johnson is right about Howard Johnson being right. (that actually caused physical pain to say that.)




If you don't like the rules or the way they are enforced on someone else's server, just go somewhere else. No need

[Wrigs]

*looks out window..sees ice forming* I have to agree with MASH too

[Dawg]

I think that BH has ceded their ethical highground to threaten a ban when they readily admit to deliberately and repeatedly violated their own rules. That does not excuse Shark's actions, but he has already owned up and apologized. Korang apologized for that on behalf of BH. Its water under the bridge...

I think we can all draw a lesson from this... more than just 'follow the server rules when visiting another server.' The second lesson to be drawn is when we are playing on OUR servers, always be considerate of the other players. Sometimes we are TS and/or otherwise joking around and not playing the game as intended, it can irritate people who are trying to play the game towards its objectives. I know I have been annoyed at times when trying to blow up a target, some teammates decide to have a knifefight or go pistol-only just to goof around. When BH violated their own rules to play around with spawncamping they made the game miserable for the others on the server. That is inconsiderate and disrespectful, just as was Shark's little ad macro.

I recall one event when some clan got on the VSF server and all stacked on one team - no harm in that. But then they ran around their own spawn TKing eachother. IIRC, they only killed eachother but they were disrupting the play of the game for EVERYONE else on the server. kick, kick, oh forget it.. .banall.... A few minutes later another one of their members joined the server and I immediately advised him that he was on a short leash because of the actions of his clanmates. He said, 'no problem' and played fine until he left..

Dawg

*I keep saying 'we' but I haven't been on the server in ages. I hope nobody thinks I'm speaking out of turn, but this is just common sense observations to me.

[NVmySTYLE]

i like cake with a spork!

[Little Joe]

One thing about horsing around during a game: when we do it, it is generally only VSF on the server, and we quit it when someone new joins. That's not what happened here. They may have been just joking around, but no one outside of BH knew that. Maybe the non-BH people were regs, maybe they were there for the first time. I think it was my first time at the RSD server. Anyway, I still think they were setting a bad example. They claim to be recruiting, but I doubt anyone there were impressed by anything except their spawncamping skills. This was going on for several minutes, with several people complaining, They also claim to have stopped it after we left. How convenient. Had they stopped it a little sooner, and actually played the game, none of the rest would have happened.

No, this doesn't excuse advertising, but shark told me he did it for the benefit of the non-BH players that were also tired of all their :kh: behavior. Spawncaming is a very sore spot for me. I want to compete, but you can't play if you can't even get out of your spawn. We permanently left a server over a year ago for the same thing on the same map. And no, we didn't spam them, because we didn't know how to do keybinds yet. :P

Yet another reason I think VSF is such a great place. Good games, good company. Even you BFers :lol: . We can discuss something until we are blue in the face, until we get tired of it and can move on. There, I think I feel better now.

[Chalybos]

Therapy in a screen, that's us. Even you CoD'ers. :wink:

[Vygramul]

Spawncaming is a very sore spot for me. I want to compete, but you can't play if you can't even get out of your spawn.

For you non-CoDers out there: spawncamping in CoD is far more devastating than in BF.


We permanently left a server over a year ago for the same thing on the same map.

Obviously not.

[Dawg]

We permanently left a server over a year ago for the same thing on the same map.

Obviously not.
?

He said a server. Nothing he said indicates that he/they has/have returned that that server.

Dawg

[MadSci]

I like to camp a spawn in MMO's for teh uber l00t!111!!ShiftOne!11 :roll: :P

[Little Joe]

And the clan was the DAWG clan if I remember correctly. Little Joe remembers.

What he said. (No relation to our Dawg, afaik)

This was not the first "misunderstanding" with BH. Shifty was kicked for an hour once because they thought he was cheating and they wanted time to review their screen shots. :lol: Sound familiar? He has played there since so they obviously found nothing, just like we would expect.

Anyway, no big loss. If there are still some VSFers who want to play there, I hope you are able to. The Thurmont crew will not be joining you there. :|