VSF Forums Rule #7

[RuperT]

"No Advertising. Do not post messages on the server or forums advertising websites, FTP sites, clan recruitment or anything else. If you are trying to promote your server, website or clan, posting a link in your signature is acceptable."
Is there any substantial reason for not striking this sucker right out, or at least amending it? As it is written, I broke the crap out of it by advertising the Florida Death Swamp DC server; I'm guessing that I wasn't struck by lightning because I'm a contributing forum member whose main purpose in posting was to provide for the community. I suppose on the CCM forums, corporate sponsorship may have been the impetus for this law, but we aren't beholden anymore. Perhaps we could restrict commercial advertisement? Certainly, I don't want to see thread after thread concerning Amway, or Affordable Cell Phones, but I don't think anyone would consider this some vast untapped market anyway.
Now, the reason I even bring this up is that I would like to broach the subject of clan recruitment, and I fear this would be met more harshly than providing server info. My clan, DsK, is trying to compete in the CAL DC league next season (a couple of weeks away). The matches are 10v10, and I'd like a couple of extra guys on the roster; many of the VSF DCers seem to meet my expectations of maturity, skill, and attitude. Now, this can be addressed in-server (esp. with chat-lag patched), but everybody's kind of busy then, which is the way I like it. This seems like a logical place for this kind of discussion. Actually, other people have voiced an interest in making these forums more clan-friendly, and while there are some bad elements out there, the dialogue would probably be more easily controlled than, say, that proposed by the firebrand RolandTGunner :P .
Besides, we have recently lamented the reduction in post counts here. Between that, and the spam content, I don't really see what the downside would be (Click Here For Shaved Lolitas would break another rule, anyway, I think).

Referendum?

[Bokchoi]

(Click Here For Shaved Lolitas would break another rule, anyway, I think).


RuperT your link is broken :lol: :(

[Angry Kid]

It could be argued that this rule is broken everytime someone posts a link to, say, NewEgg and raves about the low prices, fast shipping, good CS, etc, etc. Does Kaga violate the FTP rule by offering the DC 0.7 patch on his ftp server? It can be a slippery slope, I suppose.

I have seen }br{ mentioned several times - does that mean we can advertise clans associated with VSF-sanctioned servers but not other 'outside' servers??

Intent plays a lot in the enforcement, I suppose, and that, in turn, makes the rule arbitrary. Since - by the letter of the rule - RuperT violated this, but was given a pass by the server admins, it would make more sense (IMO) for the admins to strike the rule and use their arbitrary judgement on links, clans, ftps, etc. to delete those that are offensive (still clicking on the Lolitas link, btw :cry: ), blatant adverts, KaZaA-like sites, and so forth.

This has been a long-winded attempt to say - I agree with Rupe. :D

[JTFazz]

The spirit and intent of this is to not use this forum primarily for that purpose. RuperT, you are considered part of the community -- one of us -- and the announcement of your server being available is accepted in the spirit of making it available for our like-minded members to have an outlet to play DC. Now, if you popped in here unknown and one of your first posts was to promote your server, clan or web site, then it would be suspect. You participate, you contribute to the discourse and you are an okay guy -- as Floridians go :swg:. But seriously...

If an established community member makes a resource available for the community, that is one thing. If their intent is to drive traffic to their server or web site strictly for their own motivations, that is another ball of worms altogether... sorry for the mixed metaphor. Because of the nature of this community, the resources we avail ourselves of are not entirely our own. We just have a loose confederation of resources made available by our members.

Hope that clears it up. This rule comes out along the lines of what I learned as a high school basketball official... preventive officiating. If you set the tone early on, the less likely it is that the behavior will gain momentum and get out of control.

So don't sweat this. We appreciate you providing a place where our folks can play... filling the DC gap so to speak.

Now if you want to recruit for DSK, you certainly can do that on your server once the lambs are led there for the slaughter. We are certainly not anti-clan here, but most of our members prefer that this not turn into a clan-based community. Its a cart wagging the horse kinda thing (did it again). Because clans tend to get very competitive, a heavy hanging sense of clan affiliation of any kind tends to create a sense of preferences and conflicts of interest that fly in the face of the community's spirit of openess as a whole. The only thing that we ask of our community members is that they follow the spirit of our community philosophy, which is primarily embedded in our server and forum rules.

I can name a number of clans and clan members that are highly valued members of this community, yourself being one of them.

[ignus]

Well, speaking on behalf of the staff (hehe that rhymed :D), That rule is in place to prevent random players from registering posting a bunch of "HEY IM IN THE ABC CLAN! WE PWN J00! ABC > VSF! WANNA SCRIM? YOU SHOULD ALL JOIN THE ABC CLAN, JUST GO TO WWW.RANDOMURL.COM AND THEN YOU HAVE TO GIVE US $30 AND YOU WILL GET A CHANCE TO TRY OUT FOR OUR 1337 CLAN!"

}br{ has been mentioned here, because it is 100% comprised of VSF members (at least the CoD part of it is), including 1 site admin, 1 or more moderators, and a VSF CoD server admin. However, we have been told to try to minimize the influence of br here, so we have all stopped posting about it. we never advertised or recruited either.

and since you and your clan have been longtime friends of the CCM/VSF community, RuperT, and the fact that our VSF DC server is gone, advertising your server was fine. we dont have to join your clan to play on it. you didnt say anything like "OMG DSK > VSF CUZ WE HAVE A SERVER STILL" or anything.

now as for your wish to recruit for DSK, we'd much rather have you send PM's to the individuals you think meet your expectations and would possibly be interested in it. or even email them. a general recruitment post [i]will[/b] be deleted. ill leave the one in your above post cuz it contains so many valid questions and points. now JT or someone may disagree and come edit your post (or maybe that mysterious VSF_Admin :scared:)

and advertising online stores, funny sites, etc, should 1) be in the Weblinks module, and 2) are ok cuz they arent conflicting / competing for what VSF is doing here.

EDIT: damn i typed to slow and JT beat me to it :roll:
EDIT EDIT: :lol: randomurl is an actual site :roll:

[Angry Kid]

Now if you want to recruit for DSK, you certainly can do that on your server once the lambs are led there for the slaughter.

Or you could PM individual members.

*** Unless "they" are watching that, too. *** :scared:

[SauerKraut]

..."HEY IM IN THE ABC CLAN! WE PWN J00! ABC > VSF! WANNA SCRIM? YOU SHOULD ALL JOIN THE ABC CLAN, JUST GO TO WWW.RANDOMURL.COM AND THEN YOU HAVE TO GIVE US $30 AND YOU WILL GET A CHANCE TO TRY OUT FOR OUR 1337 CLAN!" ...

"OMG DSK > VSF CUZ WE HAVE A SERVER STILL" ...

EDIT: d**n i typed to slow and JT beat me to it :roll:
EDIT EDIT: :lol: randomurl is an actual site :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Chairman_Kaga]

It could be argued that this rule is broken everytime someone posts a link to, say, NewEgg and raves about the low prices, fast shipping, good CS, etc, etc. Does Kaga violate the FTP rule by offering the DC 0.7 patch on his ftp server? It can be a slippery slope, I suppose.

Yeah. But everytime JT deletes it, I put it back up. ;)

Really all comes down to intent. The Swamp was offered as a place to play. As was the NJ server, Konjin, etc... I don't think anyone has a problem with posts like that. That is an addition/enhancement to the community.

Some of the things we're trying to avoid (only a partial list)
Blatant adverts that draw away from the community rather than add. ie "Come use THESE forums instead of VSF".
Outright recruiting messages. They are just distracting as a whole and can be done in many other less intrusive ways.
Advertising for personal gain.

To date I think everyone has kept in the spirit of the rule. We are looking at a rewording to make the intent clearer.

[Canadian Hick]

}br{ clan?
OMG 1337 }{4><! I demand royalties! :lol:

[SauerKraut]

}br{ clan?
OMG 1337 }{4><! I demand royalties! :lol:


I was thinking the same darn thing!


hahahahaahahahahahahahaha


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ignus]

}br{ clan?
OMG 1337 }{4><! I demand royalties! :lol:


I was thinking the same darn thing!


hahahahaahahahahahahahaha


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

i dont get it :?

[Canadian Hick]

}br{ clan?
OMG 1337 }{4><! I demand royalties! :lol:


I was thinking the same darn thing!


hahahahaahahahahahahahaha


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

i dont get it :?
Me and SK tricked the people on the CCM server into believing there was an entire BR clan regularing the server. :D

[SauerKraut]

Truly a gullible lot.

:D


that was fun though, i remember we'd get on the CCM server when nobody else was on and plan our comings and goings. I forgot who it was (Blastiiid?) who was completely remissed when both you and me were playing with the BR tags and someone else came in with Hicks name to throw people off.

hhehehe

Was that Stickboy or somebody?

[Canadian Hick]

Truly a gullible lot.

:D


that was fun though, i remember we'd get on the CCM server when nobody else was on and plan our comings and goings. I forgot who it was (Blastiiid?) who was completely remissed when both you and me were playing with the BR tags and someone else came in with Hicks name to throw people off.

hhehehe

Was that Stickboy or somebody?
I know Raptor and Blastiid thought we were the same. :D
I know Roland said "I wonder where SK is" or something like that after you left and it was just me and uh "me."

[JTFazz]

OK, the Advertising rule has been revised to allow for RuperT to sleep at night. I wanted to have another insomniac on our hands, but I was overruled. The new verbage has been included in the rules threads here and in The Wall. I hope it more closely captures the spirit of the intent. It also provides for admin approval. If you are too lazy to surf back to the rules thread, here is the new language.



No Advertising/Conflict of Interest. Do not post messages on the affiliate servers or this website or forums advertising websites, FTP sites, clan recruitment or anything else with which you are affiliated or have a personal interest without prior admin approval. If you are trying to promote your server, website or clan, posting a a link in your signature is acceptable. But do not use this forum as a place to advertise and promote your own interests. If you have a resource you want to make available to our members and it is deemed in keeping with the philosophy of the community and is not simply self-promotion, send a private message to one of the staff admins to get interim approval. Final approval may be subject to staff review.

[Chalybos]

Sooooooooo, if you get the approval from the admins, you can do it? Guess RuperT's going to put out an APB on Hick and SK (you can never have too many good snipers). :D

[JTFazz]

Sooooooooo, if you get the approval from the admins, you can do it? Guess RuperT's going to put out an APB on Hick and SK (you can never have too many good snipers). :D

Admins will basically determine if it meets the spirit of the intent (and the SK smell test)... as discussed earlier in this thread.

[Chalybos]

Sooooooooo, if you get the approval from the admins, you can do it? Guess RuperT's going to put out an APB on Hick and SK (you can never have too many good snipers). :D

Admins will basically determine if it meets the spirit of the intent... as discussed earlier in this thread.
Ah, so if it's a clan that promotes mature and fair gameplay, and forum members in good standing are members there as well, then it wouldn't be in bad taste. Personally, I think the DSK guys are a fine example of a clan that plays well with non-clanners. Except that Toast guy. :roll: But if they meet the criteria, and they are trying to recruit current forum members who already play on their server anyway, then it wouldn't be a conflict? Generally speaking, of course, as I know each situation would be different. Just my take on it, and I'm trying to see if I interpreted it correctly.

[SauerKraut]

:lol: :lol:


you really have it in for that Toast guy, don't you?

lol


He'll get his on El Al soon enough, my friend.

[Chalybos]

:lol: :lol:


you really have it in for that Toast guy, don't you?

lol


He'll get his on El Al soon enough, my friend.
Oh, he'll get his, alright. To quote Bruce Willis, "First I'm gonna kill you! Then I'm gonna cook you! Then I'm gonna eat ya!"

[Chairman_Kaga]

:lol: :lol:


you really have it in for that Toast guy, don't you?

lol


He'll get his on El Al soon enough, my friend.
Toast must die. He was mean to me last night on Desert Shield. Pretty sure he had a homing beacon planted on me somehow.

[JTFazz]

No clan recruitment at all. Period. End of blank check. They can do it on their server, via PM, on their website, etc... like I said above. We will not be assimilated... anymore than we already are. :sour:

Clan recruitment does not meet the litmus test of it being a resource being offered to the community at large.

[RuperT]

No clan recruitment at all. Period. End of blank check. They can do it on their server, via PM, on their website, etc... like I said above. We will not be assimilated... anymore than we already are. :sour:

Clan recruitment does not meet the litmus test of it being a resource being offered to the community at large.
I was going to thank you admins for discussing this in a non-arbitrary manner, but I wasn't fast enough. :P
I don't really agree with your last statement, JT; some members may want to compete in a structured environment, and might be happy to find a familiar venue. However, I don't have to agree with the rules to be here; I will abide by them, when they are clearly defined (the new verbiage helps). I don't want to see this board turn into a 'Who Pwns Joo' symposium, but a majority of our posts are gleefully banal anyway. Besides, as Chalybos alluded to, not all clans are as bad as the one that apparently stole your girlfriend in High School (a Pong clan, was it?). And, as much as you may try to deny it, VSF is effectively a clan by any but the most rigid interpretations of the term. "A rose by any other name..."
Anyway, I'm not exactly comfortable PMing folk out of the blue, like some "inner city" kid selling magazines door-to-door, so I'm going to take a stab at an appropriate signature. If it don't float your goat, smite it and suggest something better.
One more thing, what is the prevailing attitude on discussing things that are clan-related? In other words, I might like to occasionally relate tales of DsK's exploits in clan matches, or I might solicit advice on map strategies. I'd be interested to hear some details of BlueRuin's matches, for that matter. Yes/No/Maybe?

[SauerKraut]

I don't want to see this board turn into a 'Who Pwns Joo'


|Dsk|ToasT > Chaly

[JTFazz]

Exploits of clans and such are certainly not taboo, in fact they are more than welcome if they have entertainment value. The clan recruitment guideline is more or less to discourage anybody and their brother clogging up important forum discussions and issues (like why SK wants to buy a silver-sequined cowboy hat) with "Do you want to join Clan X" or "Clan X is now recruiting." That frankly opens the doors to all clans, not just the ones we know are good guys. On the whole, the mature, well-meaning "clans" in the cyber gaming world are in a distinctive minority.

I have been in two clans in my day and both were ruined by youth and/or infighting. It also fostered an atmosphere at CCM where rejected clan recruits or former clan members got their feelings hurt.

We just don't want to see any of that spill over here. Also, the rule was brought forward from our old home with the CCM clan (I can see the hair on Art's neck bristling as I type) and there was wide sentiment to keep the philosophical structure intact.

And now some Pythonesque Arthurian logic...

If you regard VSF as a clan, why do you think we would allow another clan to openly recruit our members using our own website? If that were the case, do you actively visit other clan web sites/forums to recruit? :D

We certainly are not, but by your own take we are. So, why would you argue for the right to recruit given your predisposition that VSF is a clan?

VSF is certainly clan friendly, just not a sanctioned farm team for any clan/clans.

[Angry Kid]

I think we oughta ban Huey for advertising foreign cars. 8)

[JTFazz]

I think we oughta ban Huey for advertising foreign cars. 8)

He won't stick to one name long enough for that... he is the forum equivalent of Hick in-game.

[Chairman_Kaga]

I think we oughta ban Huey for advertising foreign cars. 8)

He won't stick to one name long enough for that... he is the forum equivalent of Hick in-game.
No, but there are many other reasons. :D

[Chalybos]

I hate you, SK.

And yes, I think that anyone who jumps on the server and sees all those VSF tags will assume it's a VSF clan server. I know this from some friends of mine who've popped in on other times, and referred to it as the 'VSF Clan'. That's just the way it looks to anyone else.

[ignus]

I hate you, SK.

And yes, I think that anyone who jumps on the server and sees all those VSF tags will assume it's a VSF clan server. I know this from some friends of mine who've popped in on other times, and referred to it as the 'VSF Clan'. That's just the way it looks to anyone else.

like you have friends... ;)

if you pay them, you're supposed to call them "ho's" :lol: